Topic: The Walking Dead

[SP]

Spoiler

pretty weak way to kill of heath to - assuming he is dead as he's the lead in the new 24?

[close]

He's missing. When his new series is canned he can stumble back out of the woods.

[paddysour]

Actually it probably would have been more intriguing had Tara just turned up somewhere with all these women at an important point in the story leaving us to wonder who they are; now that we actually know it's less interesting.

Imagine the crying in here about the writing if Rick and co were saved out of the blue with an army we haven't heard anything about

[Bunter]

I'd kill for a T-dog centric episode right about now. Looking back the quality of character has dropped off quite a bit, I cannot actually believe that Tara has lasted this long, someone as vanilla and forgettable as her should have been offed ages ago.

The Oceanside community had a little hut of guns, the Saviours probably took more off Rick and pals, not to mention there's about 30 of them tops.

If you want to do character episodes right then look at the Morgan and cheesemaker one, that was class. Interesting characters and high quality acting.

[Timbo's Goals]

There is the concern that there are too many locations. In not many episodes this season we have had episodes from 5 locations. Whilst no doubt they will all be pulled together in a spectacular finale, the danger is that the set up is too trite.

Also if they are going to branch off to new communities, the story there needs to be interesting, or relevant to the main arc. If it is neither, there will be protests.

They have been ambitious, we will wait to see if they have pulled it off.

Nice post J.

Nicely [as in precisely] sums things up.

This episode, adding in an entirely out of the deep blue sea new community - preposterously stocked with a convenient huge weapon arsenal with which they has somehow seemingly managed to mastermind a successful moonlight flit from Negan - does seem to have been a bridge  too far for the season to retain a much needed balance and cred. It felt so crammed in and so rushed purely to introduce the new group and the much needed weapons arsenal. The fact it was so clumsily carbunkled onto the season and not crafted with a bit more ingenuity with one of the more central characters rather than one who can never really be more than fringe served merely to emphasise the 'triteness' as you put it.

I'm sure things will recover for the next two episodes but save for the two points established - the group's existence and the guns - that was most certainly not one of the show's finest hours.

[Timbo's Goals]

If you want to do character episodes right then look at the Morgan and cheesemaker one, that was class. Interesting characters and high quality acting.

Absolutely - and let's not forget how superbly crafted the writing was too. It clearly took an awful lot of time and effort - as the best stuff needs to do. Contrast this latest episode which left the impression the writers had dashed it off in bar just prior to it being shot. Puzzling.

[Red Viper]

I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed.

[sideshowme]

it seems that the weaker characters are getting far more of the spotlight in this season.  is that a scheduling necessity for the bigger stars, who presumably have other projects?  there's still no excuse for bad writing, but it is probably part of the explanation why we're not seeing more of rick, morgan, carol and daryl.

[Timbo's Goals]

I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed.

Me too. But I'm sure the next two will pick up the cudgels and return us to somewhere like where we want things to go even if it is to focus on the subjugation to Negan and Carl losing his good eye.

 

[Timbo's Goals]

it seems that the weaker characters are getting far more of the spotlight in this season.  is that a scheduling necessity for the bigger stars, who presumably have other projects?  there's still no excuse for bad writing, but it is probably part of the explanation why we're not seeing more of rick, morgan, carol and daryl.

Could well be.

It could also be a deliberate attempt to broaden the number of 'featured characters' to correspond with the broader field of play. Whichever it is they have to make a better fist of it than they did last night. But I'm sure they will. As I say last night reminded me a lot of the Atlanta hospital departure which was purely to re-introduce and then dispense with Beth. I was relieved when they'd left it behind - not that I didn't like Beth but it was definitely a drop in the interest level and standard for me.

[Schmidt]

How else would you introduce them? The main group was split up and clearly each little sub group has to end up somewhere much like Carol and Morgan at the Kingdom.

Way premature to say this group is 'amazingly uninteresting' as well. They have an obvious motive for teaming up against the saviours and also have the arms to make it a more even contest.

I think 20-30 minutes of the new group split over a couple of episodes and involving a more interesting character would've been better, though their cup hardly runneth over when it comes to interesting people. If Carol was still a killing machine she could've found the place instead, the lying to fit in and then escaping like a bad-ass would've suited her better, plus she was out on her own recently. The Kingdom episode would've been fine with just Morgan and Ezekiel. Alternatively they could've sent someone out to search for other groups and then had them come back much later with an army, something that Tara couldn't do because she thought Negan's crew had been wiped out.

Also I just mean uninteresting in this episode, not necessarily for the rest of the show. They're all characters we've seen before, the angry untrusting leader, the emotionless child, the one different one who doesn't want to hurt people, none of them really had anything about them. The other locations have featured Daryl/Dwight/Negan, Carol/Morgan/Ezekiel, Rick/Negan and Jesus/Sasha/Maggie, all interesting enough groups.

[red mongoose]

We have to remember that one of the core principles of this series is that no one is untouchable, with the exception of Rick (so far at least), and I think the whole production has this mindset that there aren't really "secondary" characters - even though there clearly are - so I don't even think they take into consideration "Oh, we have to get back to the main characters." To them, the protagonist is the world overrun by zombies, and pretty much everyone in it is almost incidental. That's not an excuse for sloppy plotting/storytelling, but it's what I think they think and it is one of the problems I have had with the series and one of the reasons that I feel like the characterization can be scattershot. I'm trying to come around to it, and what do you know, everyone decides that this one was shit when I didn't mind it   

[Bunter]

As a few people have said, it wasn't necessarily an awful episode its just felt like salt into the wounds by focussing on the 1 location/1 character formula again, in an already slow grind of a season. It being Tara just compounds people's frustrations as no one cares or likes her.

If they're struggling to pin down the main actors due to scheduling conflicts then just cut down the episodes, rather than the show suffering with filler characters wasting everyone's time.

[Red Viper]

It really was an awful episode. There's no sugarcoating this one. Last week's episode was poor but this was just on a whole different level of shitness.

[JLStretton]

It really was an awful episode. There's no sugarcoating this one. Last week's episode was poor but this was just on a whole different level of shitness.

Afraid I have to agree.

[Timbo's Goals]

We have to remember that one of the core principles of this series is that no one is untouchable, with the exception of Rick (so far at least), and I think the whole production has this mindset that there aren't really "secondary" characters - even though there clearly are - so I don't even think they take into consideration "Oh, we have to get back to the main characters." To them, the protagonist is the world overrun by zombies, and pretty much everyone in it is almost incidental. That's not an excuse for sloppy plotting/storytelling, but it's what I think they think and it is one of the problems I have had with the series and one of the reasons that I feel like the characterization can be scattershot. I'm trying to come around to it, and what do you know, everyone decides that this one was shit when I didn't mind it   

Ha ha - I noticed that M. It made me chuckle. If it's any consolation my daughter [she's in her 30's] couldn't understand it when I said I thought it was so poor. She quoted back to me what I preach on here - namely it's merely like a chapter in a book or another scene from a film - just 40 minutes longer!!!

 

[Yiannis]

Me too. But I'm sure the next two will pick up the cudgels and return us to somewhere like where we want things to go even if it is to focus on the subjugation to Negan and Carl losing his good eye.

 

I feel like whenever Carl is on, someone should be right next to him with a megaphone shouting at him "Get a haircut, son".

[LallanaInPyjamas]

It really was an awful episode. There's no sugarcoating this one. Last week's episode was poor but this was just on a whole different level of shitness.

I still don't agree that last week's was poor at all. So much progressed.

[Red Viper]

I still don't agree that last week's was poor at all. So much progressed.

Compared to this week's episode, last week was Citizen fucking Kane.

[Red_Irishman]

Compared to this week's episode, last week was Citizen fucking Kane.

[MagicHat]

Started badly, part from adjusting to new look Tara, partly from trying to remember what I knew about Tara and "who the heck is her companion", it recovered for me

Spoiler

around when she disovered the camp

[close]

but only to "that was an alright episode." I liked Tara's humour but writing was not at the show's best and I do share some of the concerns about the logic of this episode

[Molealdinho_LK]

I get the whole laying the plot and foundations for later episodes but I think they've got it wrong.

They could have had a better impact in 3 episodes as opposed to the 6 we've had so far. It's all starting to feel dragged out and losing any impact that it may have had IMO.

[Macphisto80]

The writing has taken a nose dive off a cliff. Hope there's an airbag at the bottom.

That episode could have been done for a 90's afternoon's time TV show on a Saturday, slotted straight in just before Baywatch. Fuck me, that was weak. More Negan bashing heads in, please, and more set pieces like the one on the bridge. At least the zombies looked cool.

[Molealdinho_LK]

The writing has taken a nose dive off a cliff. Hope there's an airbag at the bottom.

That episode could have been done for a 90's afternoon's time TV show on a Saturday, slotted straight in just before Baywatch. Fuck me, that was weak. More Negan bashing heads in, please, and more set pieces like the one on the bridge. At least the zombies looked cool.

It would want to be a pretty big airbag. Regardless of what happens for the rest of the season there's no escaping how poor it's been so far.

There's no shortage of material to write about and film so there's no excuse.

The show is boring and stale. Negan would have freshened it up but he's like a panto villain. He was more menacing off screen than he has been on it.

[Sir Capon of Debaser]

Enjoyed that episode of Tenko last night

And by ''Enjoyed'' I mean shite

[Schmidt]

I get the whole laying the plot and foundations for later episodes but I think they've got it wrong.

They could have had a better impact in 3 episodes as opposed to the 6 we've had so far. It's all starting to feel dragged out and losing any impact that it may have had IMO.

They probably could've done some of this last season too, maybe introduce the amazonian-lite group before the main group runs into Negan but don't have Tara get back until after the damage is done. It still wouldn't have been great TV but at least it would've been surrounded by decent episodes and would've cut down on the setting up required this season.

[sideshowme]

I get the whole laying the plot and foundations for later episodes but I think they've got it wrong.

They could have had a better impact in 3 episodes as opposed to the 6 we've had so far. It's all starting to feel dragged out and losing any impact that it may have had IMO.

have to agree with this.  i know timbo hates the comparison, but look at how GoT did it - back and forth across continents, with skilful writing tying the stories together.  TWD doesn't seem to trust its audience's intelligence enough to follow more than one story or character at a time.  and GoT episodes (at least until the writing fell off a cliff the last season) were far more the chapters from a book, scenes from a single long narrative model than TWD has ever been.  so 3 exciting episodes instead of 6 largely boring ones?  yes please.

[Timbo's Goals]

have to agree with this.  i know timbo hates the comparison, but look at how GoT did it - back and forth across continents, with skilful writing tying the stories together.  TWD doesn't seem to trust its audience's intelligence enough to follow more than one story or character at a time.  and GoT episodes (at least until the writing fell off a cliff the last season) were far more the chapters from a book, scenes from a single long narrative model than TWD has ever been.  so 3 exciting episodes instead of 6 largely boring ones?  yes please.

Cannot really argue. There's no reason why mixing and matching couldn't have compressed what's been offered so far. Personally, I'd say episodes 2, 4, 5 and 6 could have been compressed to 2 episodes and been the better for it. I think episode 1 [the slayings and Rick's subjugation] and episode 3 [Daryll's subjugation] warranted the full monty. Perhaps you could also put up a case for a full episode for the Ezekiel. But deffo not the other three.

[Molealdinho_LK]

have to agree with this.  i know timbo hates the comparison, but look at how GoT did it - back and forth across continents, with skilful writing tying the stories together.  TWD doesn't seem to trust its audience's intelligence enough to follow more than one story or character at a time.  and GoT episodes (at least until the writing fell off a cliff the last season) were far more the chapters from a book, scenes from a single long narrative model than TWD has ever been.  so 3 exciting episodes instead of 6 largely boring ones?  yes please.

It doesn't even have to be to the level of detail GOT used (around characters, back stories, locations etc.) they could have just tightened up the episodes. The single narrative method doesn't work because I don't think the audience cares about individual characters in TWD to the same extent as other shows. I personally only care about the group as a whole, only individual character of note is Darryl. The last two episodes are a perfect example, they were based around 4 characters which to be honest I don't care about individually and wasted a lot of screen time. Some of the things that happened earlier in the season have lost momentum as a result.

Also just in relation to not caring about individual characters I believe this is a result of poor writing/character development in earlier seasons.

[sideshowme]

Cannot really argue. There's no reason why mixing and matching couldn't have compressed what's been offered so far. Personally, I'd say episodes 2, 4, 5 and 6 could have been compressed to 2 episodes and been the better for it. I think episode 1 [the slayings and Rick's subjugation] and episode 3 [Daryll's subjugation] warranted the full monty. Perhaps you could also put up a case for a full episode for the Ezekiel. But deffo not the other three.

that's fair - although i wasn't a fan of the daryl episode (or indeed of daryl himself), it comes back to the fact that the episodes that merited full eps were based around characters introduced in season 1 - rick, carol, morgan and daryl.  i don't think the show has added anyone worthwhile since that first season (and the change in showrunner?), and yet they persist in giving these superficial nobodies 50 minute episodes.

[Red Viper]

I think the single character POV episodes aren't being done because of artistic reasons, it's probably more to save money on the main cast and also to keep them happy. Andrew Lincoln and Chandler Riggs have been doing this shit for 7 years now, there's no way they want to carry on forever.  I'd imagine it's the same for alot of the main cast who've been on the show for a while, so limiting the amount of episodes they're in and reducing their filming schedule probably helps to keep them sweet.

Unfortunately the show is suffering majorly as a result of this. I can see the ratings nose-diving even further after this last episode.

[Xxavi]

have to agree with this.  i know timbo hates the comparison, but look at how GoT did it - back and forth across continents, with skilful writing tying the stories together.  TWD doesn't seem to trust its audience's intelligence enough to follow more than one story or character at a time.  and GoT episodes (at least until the writing fell off a cliff the last season) were far more the chapters from a book, scenes from a single long narrative model than TWD has ever been.  so 3 exciting episodes instead of 6 largely boring ones?  yes please.

That being said, lots of people (including myself?) complained about the fact that GoT was shifting back and forth across continents every minute. Some of us felt it was choppy, they would show a character for grand total of 30 seconds and then something else. And conversely, when GoT had 2-3 episodes entirely dedicated to a certain location, these episodes were hailed as some of the better ones in the entire history of the show.

There has to be a golden middle in this. They could show more than 1 character/location, they could show 1 location etc., it doesn't matter, it just has to be done well. I personally prefer 3-4 locations, not way too many like some GoT episodes had. But more importantly, writing is very important. People here are saying they want more of Negan bashing heads. Really? That thing got boring after the first episode, how many of tiresome monologues are you ready to listen to?

[LallanaInPyjamas]

That being said, lots of people (including myself?) complained about the fact that GoT was shifting back and forth across continents every minute. Some of us felt it was choppy, they would show a character for grand total of 30 seconds and then something else.

Yeah agreed. Game of Thrones eventually nailed this but in season 2 and to a lesser extent 3 it felt so rushed at times and people talk about not caring about Maggie for example (which I find a little odd, she's pretty much an original and has always been a likable character, and is carrying Glenn's child so personally I do care about her future), well I felt like that times a million for the obscure characters in GOT whose names you couldn't even remember half of the time because they'd barely been in it. (Stannis for example was a dreadful character in the TV show.)

That's definitely not the way to go with Walking Dead. It's never been like that so for it to completely shift its approach would be odd to say the least.

However, if you take the last two episodes for example, I think they might have been better off mixing and matching the two to stop people getting as bored. As I said, in isolation, I don't think this week's was even a bad episode. It's mostly the psychological aspect of seeing Tara at the start, and thinking, "Great, 40 minutes dedicated to her?!"

As it turned out, it may actually be a significant episode with regards to the camp she met and how useful they may prove to the Alexandria and Hilltop gangs in turning on the Saviours, but the vast majority of us had already mentally switched off to an extent. There were actually a couple of good scenes.

Mixing it up a bit with two storylines in one episode from time to time would help keep people's minds more active, I feel.

[Schmidt]

That being said, lots of people (including myself?) complained about the fact that GoT was shifting back and forth across continents every minute. Some of us felt it was choppy, they would show a character for grand total of 30 seconds and then something else. And conversely, when GoT had 2-3 episodes entirely dedicated to a certain location, these episodes were hailed as some of the better ones in the entire history of the show.

There has to be a golden middle in this. They could show more than 1 character/location, they could show 1 location etc., it doesn't matter, it just has to be done well. I personally prefer 3-4 locations, not way too many like some GoT episodes had. But more importantly, writing is very important. People here are saying they want more of Negan bashing heads. Really? That thing got boring after the first episode, how many of tiresome monologues are you ready to listen to?

Those one location episodes only tended to happen at the culmination of something big though, hence why they were such good television. If GoT did a full episode of Dany walking through the desert chatting to some maid we couldn't care less about then it would've come in for severe criticism.

[Molealdinho_LK]

I watched it again from the start recently (don't ask me why) and I can't believe how much screen time they've devoted to characters over the years and I don't really care about any of them. None of the deaths have shocked me asides from being shocking in a gruesome sense. Last character death I cared about was Merle, which says a lot.

The way that everything is being dragged out is removing the impact when something finally does happen. It's frustrating because the story line is there, it's just being executed poorly.

[Xxavi]

Those one location episodes only tended to happen at the culmination of something big though, hence why they were such good television. If GoT did a full episode of Dany walking through the desert chatting to some maid we couldn't care less about then it would've come in for severe criticism.

Agreed. That's why I say that the directors must know when to do, what to do. If it is going to be an episode full of non-stop action like Hardhome, sure, it probably makes sense to focus on a single location. Episode 1 of the Walking Dead this season isn't criticized although that was also shot in just one location.

Anyway, it is all about content. What is in the story. Somehow HBO knows a lot better how to do these. May be they re-watch it themselves 5-10 times and see if they still like it? I personally wouldn't have watched any of the episodes of the Walking Dead this season. Each episode can be roughly summarized by 2-3 sentences.

[lionel_messias]

---It's just so lazy.

They have to now start building to some sort of bigger plot. The problem TWD is always the same, frenzy of pornographic action and death, in between its a limp cabbage with quinoa dialogue and pointless titting about.

[Red Viper]

I keep thinking lately how much betterthis show could have been had it been done by HBO instead of AMC.

[sideshowme]

That being said, lots of people (including myself?) complained about the fact that GoT was shifting back and forth across continents every minute. Some of us felt it was choppy, they would show a character for grand total of 30 seconds and then something else. And conversely, when GoT had 2-3 episodes entirely dedicated to a certain location, these episodes were hailed as some of the better ones in the entire history of the show.

There has to be a golden middle in this. They could show more than 1 character/location, they could show 1 location etc., it doesn't matter, it just has to be done well. I personally prefer 3-4 locations, not way too many like some GoT episodes had. But more importantly, writing is very important. People here are saying they want more of Negan bashing heads. Really? That thing got boring after the first episode, how many of tiresome monologues are you ready to listen to?

i never agreed with that characterisation of GoT as choppy - i thought it always did a good job of showing a purposeful global story unfolding, with lots of moving parts coming into play at different times.  yes there were big showpiece episode 9s in there that concentrated on one location, but the bulk of the series was always (like the title sequence) the tiny cogs moving inexorably towards the end game.  this largely went out of the window with the most recent season, obviously.

i agree though that whatever you do, it has to be done well - and the most recent seasons of TWD and GoT both suffered from failure to stick to that particular maxim.

Agreed. That's why I say that the directors must know when to do, what to do. If it is going to be an episode full of non-stop action like Hardhome, sure, it probably makes sense to focus on a single location. Episode 1 of the Walking Dead this season isn't criticized although that was also shot in just one location.

but it's not a matter of locations (although the variety and sumptuous production design in GoT does help), it's about characters.  GoT has them in abundance, and TWD doesn't, outside of rick, carol and morgan.  ep 1 of this series wasn't criticised IMO for its single location because it focused on rick. 

that said, if we'd had an episode of GoT dedicated to the sand snakes...

I keep thinking lately how much betterthis show could have been had it been done by HBO instead of AMC.

definitely this, for the lack of stupid restrictions, but also for the greater budget.

[JLStretton]

Reason she had gained weight

"Dear Instagram trolls, body shamers, and the men and woman who think it's ok to comment on my weight:
I hope that you don't have children. And if you do, I hope you teach them about kindness and acceptance. I hope they learn that it isn't ok to make fun of people or call people names. I hope one day YOU learn what it takes to be a parent. A kind, selfless parent. A working parent. A parent that puts themselves in someone else's shoes. Maybe you can't get it through your thick f*cking skull, but nursing a baby for a year (and pumping in a van between takes, in the dead of summer in Georgia) is a lot of work, determination, and scheduling. So before you decide to make a comment about my chest being 'too large' or how 'fat' I've become, just know that this little girl got the best start to life. I wouldn't have changed it for a second. I would've gladly continued to eat enough calories to produce milk for her little bones to grow.
Also, grow the f*ck up. Your mother should be ashamed for raising such a judgmental bully. I'm sure she knows how 'courageous' you must be for trolling and hiding behind your Iphone and computers. P.s. I would LOVE to see any man or woman give birth to a baby, nurse the baby, and then work 17 hour days and NAIL their own stunts. P.s.s. Be kind to each other. We need it now more than ever. ❤️✌🏼️"

Fair play, still doesn't take away that the episode was shit lol

[Yiannis]

Well said. Pathetic she even felt the need to explain herself but I guess she can take that much trolling and cuntiness.